Curse

Jam Jar · Apr 16, 2008, 12:11 AM // 00:11

Question to PvPers, is Flail viable for PvP?

Whenever I see a flail warrior, I just run away

. They usually cancel stance, but lose flail in the process. However, since it uses adrenaline gain, will the little lost time affect them much? Rushing in and bull striking can give you enough adrenaline to pump up your flail again.

How would it compare to, say Frenzy. The double damage really gets to you.

Just wanted to hear your thoughts.

Powerful White Man · Apr 16, 2008, 12:11 AM // 00:11

Frenzy for Swords and Axes. (Flail COULD be viable if you have a KD in your spike)

Flail is for Hammers, because the enemy is flat on their asses and cannot run. (knockdown!)

jonnieboi05 · Apr 16, 2008, 12:13 AM // 00:13

beat me to it, powerful. flail = hammers. can't really "kite" when you're kd'ed, right?

~LeNa~

Bowstring Badass · Apr 16, 2008, 12:14 AM // 00:14

Well Rush+Frenzy is better suited for PvP because well an IAS that costs energy and not adrenaline helps you spike easier and prove pressure better. Where as Flail is more viable in PvE because warriors are more likely to go in first.

Also the people with kd beat me to it.

Jam Jar · Apr 16, 2008, 12:29 AM // 00:29

Ok, what about a [Bull Strike] and [Shock] axe spiker? Once he starts moving, knock him down, attack, shock, then spike.

Flail can be useful in here, or would frenzy be better since you're using energy instead of adrenaline?

Bowstring Badass · Apr 16, 2008, 12:31 AM // 00:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jam Jar

Ok, what about a [Bull Strike] and [Shock] axe spiker? Once he starts moving, knock him down, attack, shock, then spike.

Flail can be useful in here, or would frenzy be better since you're using energy instead of adrenaline?

Frenzy would be more viable because you are most likely using [eviscerate]. [bulls strike] followed up by [eviscerate] (if possible) can wreck havoc on a 60 al target.

Just remember hammer is always better with flail and will always be sword/axe will be better with frenzy. Unless it is PvE.

Jam Jar · Apr 16, 2008, 12:34 AM // 00:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bowstring Badass

Frenzy would be more viable because you are most likely using [eviscerate]. [bulls strike] followed up by [eviscerate] (if possible) can wreck havoc on a 60 al target.

Just remember hammer is always better with flail and will always be sword/axe will be better with frenzy. Unless it is PvE.

You mean [Executioner's Strike]?

Well the combo I use is, [Protector's Strike] -> [Bull's Strike] -> [Frenzy] -> [Shock] -> [Eviscerate] -> and [Executioner's Strike]

Dr Strangelove · Apr 16, 2008, 12:43 AM // 00:43

Flail if you have a snare, frenzy if you don't.

Powerful White Man · Apr 16, 2008, 12:55 AM // 00:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jam Jar

You mean [Executioner's Strike]?

Well the combo I use is, [Protector's Strike] -> [Bull's Strike] -> [Frenzy] -> [Shock] -> [Eviscerate] -> and [Executioner's Strike]

There goes all of your energy. It's kind of up to preference, but as a bunch of us have said, and Dr. Strangelove summed up so nicely: Flail if you have a Snare (KD), Frenzy if you don't.

Sir Tidus · Apr 16, 2008, 12:56 AM // 00:56

Wow, guys really? Sorry, I don't PvP much. I thought that Frenzy is really bad with or without a cancel stance (since you take double damage and you'll just lose your 5 energy for nothing if you use a cancel stance). Is this only for PvE? Or am I just plain wrong?

RhanoctJocosa · Apr 16, 2008, 12:59 AM // 00:59

Frenzy is the best skill in the game

Powerful White Man · Apr 16, 2008, 01:03 AM // 01:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir Tidus

Wow, guys really? Sorry, I don't PvP much. I thought that Frenzy is really bad with or without a cancel stance (since you take double damage and you'll just lose your 5 energy for nothing if you use a cancel stance). Is this only for PvE? Or am I just plain wrong?

Frenzy is = to 50% more damage and 50% more adrenaline for 8 seconds for 5 energy. The downside is completely negligible, and some may argue it is the best Warrior (or all) skill in the game! It's by no means bad.

(Numbers may or may not be wrong, can't be bothered to look it up / calculate it, but... Frenzy owns.)

Bowstring Badass · Apr 16, 2008, 01:04 AM // 01:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jam Jar

You mean [Executioner's Strike]?

Well the combo I use is, [Protector's Strike] -> [Bull's Strike] -> [Frenzy] -> [Shock] -> [Eviscerate] -> and [Executioner's Strike]

Well generally people start their Eviscerate spike with well Eviscerate or bulls then use evis.

But Bulls Strike>Evis>Exe rapes. With [frenzy] up you dont have to waste adren on flail so you can just go Bulls>Evis>Exe without having to Bulls>Auto Attack>Evis.

Dr Strangelove · Apr 16, 2008, 01:05 AM // 01:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir Tidus

Wow, guys really? Sorry, I don't PvP much. I thought that Frenzy is really bad with or without a cancel stance (since you take double damage and you'll just lose your 5 energy for nothing if you use a cancel stance). Is this only for PvE? Or am I just plain wrong?

People don't target warriors first in PvP. If everyone lets you frenzy to your heart's content, you pump out a lot more damage. If they decide you target you, you spent that 5 energy and your cancel stance to force them to pay attention to you. Think of it like a taunt skill that breaks faces.

Powerful White Man · Apr 16, 2008, 01:10 AM // 01:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove

People don't target warriors first in PvP. If everyone lets you frenzy to your heart's content, you pump out a lot more damage. If they decide you target you, you spent that 5 energy and your cancel stance to force them to pay attention to you. Think of it like a taunt skill that breaks faces.

"Frenzy. A taunt skill that breaks faces."

Beautiful.

Age · Apr 16, 2008, 01:10 AM // 01:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir Tidus

Wow, guys really? Sorry, I don't PvP much. I thought that Frenzy is really bad with or without a cancel stance (since you take double damage and you'll just lose your 5 energy for nothing if you use a cancel stance). Is this only for PvE? Or am I just plain wrong?

Yes you can use Frenzy is PvE at lvl 20 with over 500HP closer to 600 anyway it is fine and sprint,rush or enraging charge are good cancel stances.It doesn't use up that much energy if using adrenal skill only

Grasping Earth is best used on hammer build with Frenzy along with protectors defence.You don't use it on an Axe or Sword build Bulls Strike.Bulls Charge use to be used a lot but no so much anymore for your elite and it is stance.

Cathode_Reborn · Apr 16, 2008, 01:18 AM // 01:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir Tidus

Wow, guys really? Sorry, I don't PvP much. I thought that Frenzy is really bad with or without a cancel stance (since you take double damage and you'll just lose your 5 energy for nothing if you use a cancel stance). Is this only for PvE? Or am I just plain wrong?

PvP discussions in this part of the forum sometimes lead to confusion if the type of pvp isn't specified.

Frenzy is a very good skill as long as you're aware of the things going on around you. You have to be quick to cancel it in a bad situation. Watch some observe matches and you'll see every axe/sword war using Frenzy. One thing to keep in mind though is that they're all gonna be backed up by monks, obviously. What works in high-end pvp doesn't always work in more unorganized pvp types like AB/RA. In those kinds of pvp, Frenzy is still viable but it can be a little more dangerous. You can't guarantee you'll be backed up by monks so it becomes abit more risky. Even worse, Empathy/Spiteful Spirit can screw you bad.

With good use of cancel stances, Frenzy is great....compared to other IAS's at least. Tiger stance has a long recharge and too much downtime. Flail means enemies will kite (assuming axe/sword). Flurry Decreases your damage, which isn't good. Burst of Aggression has a really bad drawback. The only option left really becomes Frenzy. It's one of those skills that becomes better with the player's skill - use it wrong and s*** will hit the fan.

Sir Tidus · Apr 16, 2008, 01:20 AM // 01:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove

People don't target warriors first in PvP. If everyone lets you frenzy to your heart's content, you pump out a lot more damage.

Well, why would they let you use Frenzy? A warrior using Frenzy is an a lot more softer target than a spell caster.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove

If they decide you target you, you spent that 5 energy and your cancel stance to force them to pay attention to you. Think of it like a taunt skill that breaks faces.

Well, can't they just wait till you cancel Frenzy and then stop attacking you?

I have no experience; I'm just using logic. So correct me if I'm wrong please. I just can't seem to understand why Frenzy isn't the worst skill in the game.

jonnieboi05 · Apr 16, 2008, 01:24 AM // 01:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cathode_Reborn

Frenzy is a very good skill as long as you're aware of the things going on around you. You have to be quick to cancel it in a bad situation. Watch some observe matches and you'll see every axe/sword war using Frenzy. One thing to keep in mind though is that they're all gonna be backed up by monks, obviously. What works in high-end pvp doesn't always work in more unorganized pvp types like AB/RA. In those kinds of pvp, Frenzy is still viable but it can be a little more dangerous. You can't guarantee you'll be backed up by monks so it becomes abit more risky. Even worse, Empathy/Spiteful Spirit can screw you bad.

With good use of cancel stances, Frenzy is great....compared to other IAS's at least. Tiger stance has a long recharge and too much downtime. Flail means enemies will kite (assuming axe/sword). Flurry Decreases your damage, which isn't good. Burst of Aggression has a really bad drawback. The only option left really becomes Frenzy. It's one of those skills that becomes better with the player's skill - use it wrong and s*** will hit the fan.

absolutely 100% correct. ty for this fine, rather sexxy display of knowledge of the skill [frenzy]

the kurzick eater · Apr 16, 2008, 01:25 AM // 01:25

flail is only viable with hammer warriors, as they usually use kds to keep them put, and they usually use 3 cancel stances in the first place.

even if you use bulls strike and shock, thats not enough to make flail viable because:
1) bulls strike only KDs when they are moving
2) shock is used extremely sparingly and is an interrupt as well as as a snare.